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Author Topic: What exactly is "Severe manic depression?"  (Read 138116 times)
gina164
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« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2008, 06:13:29 PM »

Lee,

Good to hear that your doc has gotten to see you over time, to be able to  narrow down your diagnosis -

CBT - cognitive behavioral therapy is a great tool, for anyone - as we ALL fall victim to irrational thinking, which then produces some difficult 'emotional fall-out.'

I do hope you are doing the homework Wink Thanks for sharing!

**********************************

Madnell -

Yes...it would be great if Dan could be made to live a more healthful lifestyle...he surely could benefit from a loss of weight... hard to see him carrying a jumbo-sized spare tire...

GOD LOVE HIM, FOR SURE ~
 
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« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2008, 11:35:10 AM »

I'm wondering if Dan is indeed a "Bipolar 1" or more like a schizoaffective- bipolar type. I work psych as an RN in a state hospital here and the whole diagnoses thing with patients is really debatable. People come in, there is a serious issue, but they're either admitted with their old diagnoses from past admissions or something is thrown on them just to get them admitted and SSI payment to start for their inpatient costs. It seems like Mr. Johnston is stable but he still closesly clings (Huh) to his Devil beliefs or possible delusions... as if he's not fully recovered in that area. I imagine he'd probably be on a mood stabilizer (Lithium, depakote, Lamictal) & also a atypical antipsychotic (Zyprexa, Geodon, Risperdal) to keep delusional thinking at a minimum. The movie makes it really apparant in his early years that he was/is a "textbook bipolar 1", but the later delusions and their predominance in his life & thoughts make you wonder. Generally someone who is bipolar (or manic-depressive) type 1 is pretty symptom free while in remission. That is you wouldn't think twice of them as mentally ill unless they went manic or depressive. Unfortunately, too, mental illness is SOOOOO complicated & compounded by drug abuse that even more symptoms occur and make rediagnoses warranted... or it really masks the original diagnoses completely because of delusions that occur post severe drug abuse.

Anyways. I wish him the best. Not just as a psych professional... but also as a person living with bipolarism.
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« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2008, 12:07:39 PM »

It seems like Mr. Johnston is stable but he still closesly clings (Huh) to his Devil beliefs or possible delusions... as if he's not fully recovered in that area.

I was just curious to know what gives you that impression?  I haven't heard him speak of the devil or any other delusions in well over 10 years.
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« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2008, 12:35:29 PM »

I was just curious to know what gives you that impression?  I haven't heard him speak of the devil or any other delusions in well over 10 years.
Well not knowing him (which I'm sad to say sad ) the movie sort of projects that imagery... that and I don't know how old some of the drawings shown in the actual film are. Delusions happen with bipolarism (I know) but usually I see schizoaffective-bipolar type clients that need a constant anti-psychotic (along with the mood stabilizers/antidepressant/mild benzo cocktail) used to prevent delusions/hallucinations from reoccuring. Whether it's a newer neuroleptic in the form of a pill or a longer acting deconate shot.

Glad to hear it's been so long since he's even mentioned it!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2008, 12:37:27 PM by Psychotic State » Logged
gina164
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« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2008, 10:20:21 AM »

 I have a few thoughts to share...about labels, and also delusions/paranoia...

Dan could very well officially have multiple diagnoses...it is not uncommon...labels are just that...and the DSM (disanostical and statistical manual) has been revised and revised and revised...some labels being dropped...one I believe should not have been - sadistic personality disorder, nothing to do with Dan - a past employer fit that checklist perfectly...now, I guess she gets to just be 'an asshole?' ...

Severe manic depression, type II, of course, carried with it delusions.
I first met Dan in early Aug of '05, when he was delusional, and he did mention Hitler as a great guy...saying killing so many Jews in such a short time as mhad to have made him great.

...this of course, I took as mania, and also unfortunately the 'over-programming' of Christianity in him, that he still fights to this day...


I also wondered if he was testing me, in a weird way...like, if I agreed, he'd know he couldn't realy trust me...oddly, I only 'think' this now, looking back...

because, I replied by saying that Hitler was a pathetic person, and spoke about how Hitler hated himself, and so had to find others to hate...and Dan 'understood,' and did not persist AT all, and from then on actually seemed to beigin his pursuit of me Wink

...my take, if it were true paranoia, he'd have persisted...

the next time we met and spent 3 days together (me in a nearby hotel, as I had married by then), he was stabilized, and 'his normal self'...although he was not happy that I had married in the meantime Wink, and wished my hubby dead...but that was a very bad joke, on his part...not anything bad...this is, btw, why, I do not visit him anymore...he also couldn't really enjoy phone calls anymore, after that visit...he kinda 'fell for me,'...which I imagine he would for any decent woman who shows him caring and true friendship.

Anyway, during the first meeting, when he was manic, and his concert tour got cancelled due to it...the devil did get mentioned, and so did Hitler, as I said..two characters that seem to me to represent to him the evil side of all of us...

About the devil, I told him I do not believe in a God who creates devils...but that there is human evil, which comes from lack of love, like Hitler...

God, ducks, nude women Wink ... these are some of his favorite things....calming things...oh, and music, and Casper...etc...

So, my opinion of Dan -

He is an amazingly intelligent man (NOT uncommon in bipolars), a wonderful friend, a truly loving man...of all mankind, falls easily and hard for women he likes,
Sad , is a very loving son,

comes from a family that loves him,

but the 'devil as a reality influence' didn't help him emotionally,  

but it also didn't cause his bipolar - that's mainly genetic, 70% concordance rate in identical twin studies - meaning 7 of 10 identical twins adopted out to DIFFERENT FAMILIES will 'get it' ....

...that's where researchers know that 30% of the 'clinical manisfestation' (the phenotype) of the gene/s involved (the genotype) is nurture/environment...so, his environment could have brought it out 'clinically'....but, he also got into drugs, which is part of environment!

I know he still officially 'believes' in the devil, but I think that what I said to him and I am certain what many others say helps him understand that religion is personal, and that some people simply think 'the devil' means 'lack of love' causing people to do very sad things...so, I think his 'idea' of the devil is not as
intense in him as when he grew up.

Well, hopefully, the moderators will not 'axe' this reply...

I hope it was ok to share some of the reality of what happens to Dan if/when he is delusional.
He is VERY stable now...except that his diabetes doesn't help Sad

I truly adore his persona, though...he is a true gem among people....

....if you ever got the opportunity to meet him and really interact with him, alone, one on one, he's just terrific...not because of his illness, in spite of it Smiley


Gina
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« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2008, 10:46:09 AM »


 and from then on actually seemed to begin his pursuit of me Wink

To most observers of that whole mess it appeared to be the other way around. 

Reminder to everyone: take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt.
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« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2008, 12:02:40 PM »

Severe manic depression, type II, of course, carried with it delusions.
Not being a PITA, but that would be Bipolar-1 wink

My BP1 delusions were around the idea that I was a "superman" of sorts. I won't get into some of my "superhuman acts" but they were far from superhuman. They were the worst, physically, as I could've gotten killed... but I've had other wierd delusional thinking. Some of the stuff you mentioned about Daniel's delusional thinking I've experienced myself... especially being a WWII buff. I went there once even knowing what a horrid man Hitler was. It was just different when I was... out there. I also had some Devil vs. the Holy Virgin Mary delusions. Funny thing is I haven't been a practicing Catholic since I was in grammar school undecided

Bipolar-2 is far less destructive to the person's life. They can function at work & with family without issue generally mantaining an almost completely normal life. Also it almost never leads to an inpatient hospitalization. It's hypomanic episodes with depressive times. Nowdays it seems like the pharmaceutical companies are trying to make BP2 as the new depression of the 21st century. Like Prozac did in the early 90's, now we have Lamictal bolstering the whole BP 2 (and now 1) with it's commercials.

I agree with you about the DSM... there are NO two patients that are alike! The more years that go by the more diagnoses we have added to it. Good case is the whole ADD/ADHD thing. It was non-exhistant when I was a kid and showing S&S of Bipolar-1. If I were born 10 15 years later I'd be ADHD. It's/They're all brain disorders involving chemical imbalances. The drugs they make one year for schizophrenia are being used the following year for bipolar, then vice versus. Hopefully one day we'll just have BRAIN CHEMICAL IMBALANCES... period! We can use proper drugs to control symptoms. Make life a lot simpler without 100s of MI names wink

Peace to all, peace to Dan  cool
« Last Edit: May 19, 2008, 12:07:24 PM by Psychotic State » Logged
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« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2008, 01:35:58 PM »


 and from then on actually seemed to begin his pursuit of me Wink

To most observers of that whole mess it appeared to be the other way around. 

Reminder to everyone: take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt.


WHAT?

Bizarre... you were never present when I was with Dan, nor ever when we spoke over the phone.
I actually thought that maybe you were a decent person, after all....but, guess not....

I never pursued Dan -
EVER. I liked him A LOT, as you well knew...but my fan motivation ALWAYS motivated me, and then a real friendship that developed...

He kissed me once...stole a kiss... that's all that ever happened...and I even told you about that...

I thought of dating him, but made a VERY concsious decision to be friends only, and made it clear with him....

...although he continued to invited me to stay with him, etc...and in phone calls, making his wishing my husband would die joke....so, I just let go...

Now, you get to know all of the details....happy now, Jeff?

Done trying to acuse others of victimizing a man you victimized?

I forgave you for that BS...and, I am sure I will forgive you for this current BS....

Sorry to pop your bubble of Dan as the eternal victim.
I let go of the friendship, as he wasn't able to deal with my being married...
I have thought to reconnect and tell him I am divorced, but I know I would not be able to be more than friend with him, AND I am moving to Maui in one month, anyway....

...and so I only send a card now and then, and birthday gifts....

and  I DO NOT EVER plan to tell him I am single....
nor will I ever visit him again....nor go to a concert even...

It'd be too hard on his soft heart.

GEE.....I am SO glad you are out of his life.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 01:51:30 PM by gina164 » Logged

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« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2008, 01:49:16 PM »

Severe manic depression, type II, of course, carried with it delusions.
Not being a PITA, but that would be Bipolar-1 wink

My BP1 delusions were around the idea that I was a "superman" of sorts. I won't get into some of my "superhuman acts" but they were far from superhuman. They were the worst, physically, as I could've gotten killed... but I've had other wierd delusional thinking. Some of the stuff you mentioned about Daniel's delusional thinking I've experienced myself... especially being a WWII buff. I went there once even knowing what a horrid man Hitler was. It was just different when I was... out there. I also had some Devil vs. the Holy Virgin Mary delusions. Funny thing is I haven't been a practicing Catholic since I was in grammar school undecided

Bipolar-2 is far less destructive to the person's life. They can function at work & with family without issue generally mantaining an almost completely normal life. Also it almost never leads to an inpatient hospitalization. It's hypomanic episodes with depressive times. Nowdays it seems like the pharmaceutical companies are trying to make BP2 as the new depression of the 21st century. Like Prozac did in the early 90's, now we have Lamictal bolstering the whole BP 2 (and now 1) with it's commercials.

I agree with you about the DSM... there are NO two patients that are alike! The more years that go by the more diagnoses we have added to it. Good case is the whole ADD/ADHD thing. It was non-exhistant when I was a kid and showing S&S of Bipolar-1. If I were born 10 15 years later I'd be ADHD. It's/They're all brain disorders involving chemical imbalances. The drugs they make one year for schizophrenia are being used the following year for bipolar, then vice versus. Hopefully one day we'll just have BRAIN CHEMICAL IMBALANCES... period! We can use proper drugs to control symptoms. Make life a lot simpler without 100s of MI names wink

Peace to all, peace to Dan  cool

Thanks for the correction on I vs II  - I have ADHD, and always mix up these things - runs in families with bipolar - but, yes, there is bipolar with delusions, without it having to be labelled schizo....

Thanks, also, for sharing about your own experiences! I think that's great...mentall ilness is a manisfestation of chemical and neurological imbalances...the fact that Dan is able to tap into places most of our normal denial /defense mechanisms won't allow, is what I cherish in his work....

I see him as very courageous - he knows what people think - some fear him...yet, he still loves his fans/the audiences...he still puts his heart out there....WAY out there....he is one of the most sensitive, loving people I have ever had the pleasure to know.

He is truly a great person, in spite of the mental illness. Dan is a great artist with a disability...not an artist because of it.
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« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2008, 03:07:25 PM »

I think this thread is getting out of hand.

I'd rather not start moderating any of it, but c'mon. Maybe some of this information is best sent to personal inboxes and emails rather than posted in a public forum. It's simply become too personal. The desire to be right and get the last word should not trump Yip/Jump decorum. A suggestion: Please try to consider this a fan forum and not the equivalent of leaving your personal teen angst journal lying open on the kitchen table.

If things start getting deleted, I'm sorry, but it's what I'm paid the big bucks to do. grin

And all the Psycho-Diagnostic cut and pastes have my head spinning. It's too easy (or too complicated?) to know so little and still suggest what someone who suffers from a mental illness has or doesn't have, or what the condition's accurate name should be, or what the best treatment should be, etc., even though intentions are good and we want to put our own two cents in, based on our own experiences with those murky dangerous waters...

Even the professionals are in disagreement with one another concerning labels, medications, therapies, etc. They change the name of the diagnosis every month, it seems. I don't think we're gonna figure it all out and explain Mr. Johnston's mental health concerns. Please, show a little respect. Who here would enjoy reading pages written by strangers (and acquaintances) debating and labeling their problems? I don't know, maybe I'm off-base with this, but it's starting to get a little weird and over-the-top for me.

If the regular contributors enjoy this kind of exchange, then please, let it be known. But I for one have lost interest, to put it as diplomatically as I can.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2008, 03:23:06 PM by Henry Long » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2008, 06:00:39 PM »

^^^^^^What Henry said^^^^^^
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« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2008, 07:10:12 PM »

Henry -

I will no longer post, nor read, from this forum...

your threats to delete are premature...

In any case, good luck and good-bye, to all here,

Gina
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« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2008, 07:41:33 PM »

Quote
I have thought to reconnect and tell him I am divorced, but I know I would not be able to be more than friend with him, AND I am moving to Maui in one month, anyway....

Gina...so sorry to hear about your breakup. If you read this... I send good wishes along with you to Maui. There is no reason you can't come back here to post and read about your friend and ours Daniel Johnston.

I LOVE DANIEL Johnston.

Good luck on the move Gina.
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« Reply #58 on: May 24, 2008, 07:41:55 AM »

For the record, I never asked anyone to leave, just to tone it down. The rules given to us moderators as to what is acceptable and what is not are fairly clear and defined, but ultimately it falls on our own sense of fairness and discretion. I would never "threaten" anyone. I was, however, reminding our members that sometimes messages (and even whole topics) can get deleted if deemed inappropriate by either the moderators or Daniel's family, and I honestly felt this thread was heading in that direction, and perhaps had already crossed the line.

It's not a personal attack. In fact, it's indifferent. It's just the way the forum works. I'm sorry the results in this case led to the third (or fourth?) "quitting" of the forum member Gina, but that is her choice, and I join  OhJoy in wishing her good luck and will add Health and Happiness along the way.


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« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2008, 07:21:02 PM »

I've not got the academic chops of you, but I've got my ideas on big Danny.

Schizotypal, maybe.
Bi-Polar, maybe.

But more likely is a learned personality disorder.  And also it's very likely that he was born a "Blue Baby" or the OB-GYN damaged Dan's frontal brain lobes with the forceps.

Dan made a leap of faith and proclaimed "I'm am artist" at an early age.  His family allowed him to get away with it.  Damn great story of nurturing and documentation of him.  But if Dan hadn't "Made It" he'd have just as soon murdered them all, sad to say.

Sure there's talent and I respect it, but in effect Dan decided he was "Special" and too good to work, and he got lucky and got away with it.

He was eccentric, sure.  But the time (6 months) with the caravan and the drugs
left their effect most probably.  Danny wouldn't have been the first kid to fry on an initial try at acid or 'shrooms, hey?
************

I say this because I mirror Dan in a way in my life and inability to conform.
I didn't hear of Dan until April of this year, btw.

I shun people and isolate myself, and have huge bitterness at women.
I believe I'm too good to work.

I say I'm a writer, even though I've only sold one piece that was published in Oct of 2004 to Time/Life Inc. for Sports Illustrated.

I live with my widow mother and have no intentions of leaving until one of my novels sells big and I've got major $buck$ to hire whores to come to a place of my own.

My neighbors pay me to do yard work, but I put it off because I'm writing, and boast to them of that (Translation: Leave me the **** alone unless you want to throw your body at me neighbor lady... I'm an "Artist" here.  Screw your lawn, I'll get to it when I want, lol.).

--Sonney  cheesy   huh
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