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Author Topic: the cd in the members only area (cs200b)  (Read 10122 times)
wickedwill
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« on: February 20, 2004, 02:35:14 AM »

MEMBERS OF THE FORUM : just got my copy of the cd in the members only area and guess what it rules!!! if you havent gotten yours yet i strongly recommend that you do!! i mean if all the active members of the forum buy one of these babies ($10 measly bucks plus s&h) then maybe it can be kept up and sold on a regular monthly basis! i mean look at the deal they offer now!! and our daniel collections can grow by leaps and bounds!!!
NON-MEMBERS OF THE FORUM: you oughta be ashamed of yourselves and by two!!!!!!!! cheesy
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2004, 08:42:47 AM »

It hurts to say this but.. I havn't enjoyed the pre-"songs of pain" stuff very much.
I loved King Weasel, that's a great song but apart from that...
I would say that if you guy's hype these songs too much it would hurt Daniel's reputation.
And why do I say this?
Because people unfamiliar to his amazing albums will listen to these pre-"songs of pain" songs (and this is very far from his best) because you tell them it's so great so that when they hear other people say how great Daniel Johnston is they're gonna say he's just overrated and that's definitely not something neither you or I are hoping for.
I know we have to do everything to promote Daniel and it's only good in getting he's stuff sold so that money will be rolling in but please, don't exaggerate like this!




(PS. I wrote the 500th post in the fan forum. I think we're getting somewhere!)
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2004, 05:09:43 PM »

disfranchise,
ok you got a good point but my post was serious and some in jest to the members it was serious, this is good and 10 bucks aint to much to spend when you know it goes to daniel. the archives are good but yeah they aint great but they are still worth 10 bucks!!! the jest part was i dont think anyone who has never heard dan would buy one of these cds much less two. i spent my 10 dollars and 2 dollars in postage and got a disc that is worth every cent.........to me! oh i will put it clearer if you never heard daniels music but are entertaining the notion of going to your music store and buying the new korn,limp bizkit,blink-182 or some other bull**** like that or as a friend said about 90% of the junk on the radio that does not deserve to be thier in the first place, well spend your dough on a genuine musician with a heart and soul and not some corporate bull**** that is churned out like on a eveytday basis that has no heart or soul. yeah its not his best so if you never herad him buy yip or hi how are you or songs of pain!!! i was just saying to the members of the forum that you should buy yourselves a copy i could have downloaded it and saved the money but i am a active member of the forum i check it out at least every other day and enjoy the folks i met and the friends and traders i have talked to .........so i feel like the money was well spent and it helps daniel out so thats all that matters.didnt mean to hype a product and drum up some business for the site!! i agree difranchise that its not up to par with daniels other stuff, but i disaree with you when you say i exaggerate this point. my point is valid and deserves to be heard!!
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wickedwill
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2004, 05:19:31 PM »

oh that was me wickedwill not a guest who wrote the previous response i forgot to sign in
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wickedwill
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2004, 05:34:07 PM »

besides 10 bucks in the good old u.s.a wouldnt even buy you a swift kick in the ass! so why not spend it on something worth it and help the site and daniel out! i mean you get to hear it before you even buy it. maybe next cassette/cd offer will be more to your liking disfranchise, but if we get negative feed back from a well respected member like yourself we may not get the chance to buy more anyways........peace
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2004, 06:46:38 PM »

". the archives are good but yeah they aint great but they are still worth 10 bucks!!! "
Yes, I totally agree with you, wickedwill and on everything else you wrote in your first response post.
And I do believe you have every right to speak highly of the songs in the members area.
What I reacted to was that you made it sound like this was as good as any other Daniel Johnston album which it's not (I find it hard to believe anyone would disagree on that).
Apart from that I think I explained myself in my last post.





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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2004, 07:21:32 PM »

Who knows how many songs Daniel wrote, and for the rest of us who might write songs, it is a good lesson not to "wait around for that great hit to come out of our head."   I think that happens a lot.  People take a stab at song-writing and if it doesn't come out in the top 40 they never write again!

Daniel was putting so much in song - and MOST are tossed out as an "experiment" in making music.   But by doing that he became REALLY, REALLY good at improvising songs, and for finding that magical spot inside your self that finds expression for the things that are hard to express.

Hearing much of these archives is "sharing" with Daniel in a lot of that exercise.

But the delimna I've created for appreciating this is that I'm only sampling the ones that are golden -

You've got to hear the whole thing of "I wish I were black" to appreciate it.   It is so ingenious.  It sounds like it was done very much off the cuff, and then whoever is playing the guitar is apparently egging him on and producing these comments and extensions of the song, and it is almost magical.  It's a great song.  Sadly, using the word "colored" is probably considered distasteful these days, but in 1982 it wasn't.

Also "In a Lifetime" - it starts off kinda routine and it sounds like you can anticipate where the rest of the song goes - but it doesn't - it takes off on a wild buggy ride (to use my grand-dad's expressions) and then lands back on his feet.  The lyrics at the first are marginally corny, but the sentiment of the whole thing is "magical" - there I am using that word again.

And I find it very interesting that at the front of the recording he says "new song.  Finished version"   That says to me that - unlike much of the other songs on tape - that this was a "whole" piece - worked out, finished and put on the shelf.

We'll be coming up on some tapes of "5-minute songs".  He and his friends challenged each other with some kind of competition amoung friends to write songs on a given topic in five minutes.  There are implied rules, and I think they are "given" the topic of the song - they don't get to choose it.

The result is some and the best and WORST moments of songmaking - it's hilarious to hear.  But again - this is a chance to get some insight into the kind of things Daniel was doing that led to "finished products" .  

And then the gold is there to be found - a few finished songs.

"I wish I were black" is symetrical and magical - and I think so because it is all impromtu.

In a Lifetime is a little long - but that is on the "glad" parts - it communicates.   And that's what we admire.  For a while we are in Daniel's head sharinghis appreciation of being "glad" today.

I'm rambling.

Let's clear the air here.  

THe Forum is for BOUNCING IDEAS around - sharing your FIRST REACTIONS and using others as a sounding board for whether or not you're crazy.   ALL these comments are VALID.   And let's leave it "okay" to say "I hate it" or whatever.

Yeah, I argued my point (there is gold in them thar hills!) but heh - that's my point.    Sadly, it is the gold that is withheld on the CDs as distributed archives.

If you want to "wait" - I can imagine at some point the really great ones from archives will be compiled into an album, etc.   But for those who don't want to wait, this is great.

OH OH - about "pre-1983" material, most people don't realize that "Wicked World" or whatever that song is, and "Grievances" and others are FROM the 1979-1981 era.   There is, in fact, a complete in-tact and MISSING album from 1981 that contains those two songs along with Wild West Virginia, etc.   But there's only one known copy, and it is "missing".

I'm rambling again - okay IT'S OKAY TO LOVE OR HATE IT AND SAY SO HERE!  Right?   I think we're all agreed.

Later!
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2004, 07:23:30 PM »

oh by no means at all was i meaning that they are as good as his official releases......not even in the same league but they are good and for us fans who follow daniel so closely and well cant get enough they are....great!!! but you are 100% in saying they are not as good and i would not recommend starting the jouney of daniels music with these discs but to the already converted well....................
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2004, 07:43:52 PM »

I should also say that I don't completely "trust" my judgements of the value of these songs.  I think many of the great ones aren't "great" right away.   Like "Museum of Love" I must have heard it umteen times and then I heard it sung in the filming this Yip Jump movie, and all the sudden I "understood" the song - I understood tthe musical "idea" and saw the connection between it and the melody.   Hmm.   Well, this is the difficulty - putting these multi-deminsional experiences into words - it can't really be done.  

So my point is - it is very interesting to me to hear that "King Weasel" keeps coming out as one of the jewels, and I didn't see it that way at first.

On the other hand, I Wish I Were Black is so "folksy" that many would say it doesn't belong with Daniel's stuff.   I liked it "anyways" and for other people that might be a turn-off.

So the comments all the way around are valuable.
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2004, 08:01:09 PM »

good point dejected! you always have something interesting to say. this may be off topic but it may have its points too, i am 32 grew up in the deep south. im talking rednecks and proud! me and my buddies growing up were way into the metal thing (slayer,mercyful fate,iron maiden) i still consider my self a metalhead, it was the soundtrack to my youth! and when a buddy comes by and im listening to daniel i get the strangest looks and comments but as we sit and b.s. i notice a foot tapping or a head bobbing coming from my friends then the questions (serious ones) start. who,where,what? they wanna know more!some i have converted some i havent. BUT everyone and i mean EVERYONE comments on the music be good or bad. my job is done!!! Cheesy daniels songwriting is awesome i mean he gets his point across sometimes good sometimes bad but its always there and makes itself known. he like my other favorite songwriter SHANE MACGOWEN can pull you out of your train of thought and take you somewhere! with dan you dont know most of the time with shane macgowen its either a pub,whorehouse,or some field in deep ireland but still they take you away to a place you would have never known if you had not heard that magical song.
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2004, 08:50:53 PM »

How many artists allow their audience the opportunity to witness the act of creation? Allow a "fly on the wall" approach to the forming of what will later emerge, in some finished state, in all it's greatness?

Beatle's stuff... yeah, lots of bootlegs there. Dylan...there'll be releases from the vaults for centuries with that one. I remember a Picasso exhibit I took in at MOMA in New York City awhile ago, his private sketch books. Studies for paintings. Notes scribbled in a cafe somewhere that would eventully lead to inventing cubism and Guernica...amazing.

Something interesting all 3 have in common? Well, I think it's obvious, and there's not a doubt in my mind 100 years from now (if we make it outta this decade in one piece!) the Beatles, Dylan, Picasso (to name a few among The Few) will still be discussed, listened to, read about, downloaded, whatever the form of sharing information will take by then... THEY will be there too. The work they did will endure and inspire generations to make their own joyful noises.

The chance to flip through the sketch books, listen to the tapes made before anyone (in the non-scientific community) used the word "internet," is simply a treasure for the people interested in how it all comes together.

We really are lucky to have such access to Daniel's work. There's not many out there who do this. Even fewer whose "unreleased/unpublished" material is worth a ****.

We sometimes talk and write about Daniel's music as if it already happened. For me, the story of Daniel's music and art has yet to be written. I like to think of it in the way Daniel himself puts it in "God":

"...made everything but...is still creating."

This past weekend, I purchased a new book from one of my favorite authors, Charles Bukowski. "Sifting Through the Madness For the Word, the Line, the Way." 395 pages of "new" poems nobody's ever read before. Released 10 years after he died, from volumns of previously uncollected poetry and letters, the posthumous editions should keep his publisher busy (and lucrative) for years to come, and his fan's eager with anticipation.

Personally, I'm glad to enjoy and share these releases of Daniel's while he's still around.
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2004, 03:45:59 AM »

Ohhh Myyyy Goddd.....Damn great posts guys...I'm glad to see people really responding to this forum and thread.  Sorry but I truely thank you all.  Ok here's my opionion.  I think wicked was just being over excited about these pre Songs of Pain songs.  I mean lets face it guys....any kind of older or newer songs he's written we will want to hear.  And I'm truely honered to pay a meeseally (sp) $10 on this cd.  Ok I won't make this long but Wicked is kinda excited (as I am too and some of you other members I'm sure).  And I'm totally thankful for this....and I know the rest of you are.  So let's stop arguing and start loving songs like "I wish I were black"  and "In a Lifetime"  like dejected suggested.  I still haven't ordered the cd...but I'm telling you I definatly will.  

Also Disfranchise your right...these songs will probably never match daniel's official albums.  But none the less I think these other songs are meant for the hardcore fans like us!!!  So let's sit back relax and enjoy some Daniel.  Anyone with me?
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wickedwill
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2004, 02:57:26 PM »

well said stallion!!! this beats the KISS fan club by a long shot that i was in from the age of 8 to 12. and gene simmons for all my moms hard earned money never did send me all the goodies i was supposed to get. what a cheap bastard that guy is. but stallions right, lets stop arguing and nitpicking and love the songs........................gone with the wild wind!!!!
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2004, 03:51:59 PM »

yes, yes, I agree once again.
As you all know I was simply just saying the his official stuff is magical and the stuff in the members area is plain good.
Peace





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wickedwill
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2004, 04:24:42 PM »

just a quick note on the archives i think one of his greatest songs is in there ''when we all become famous in the sky''!! when i heard that song i was amazed it has the same great catchiness that the songs we sang in school have you know like ''hang down your head tom dooley'' or ''camptown races'' or all those other songs i dont remember the name but i do recall the song. king weasel is another great one! i have really exhausted myself as well as you guys on this! alot had to do with being excited....indeed but thats what great art and music is supposed to do aint it? i know i live in a small town where there is one main big music store and wal-mart to get music. who would buy music from wal-mart with the censoring and all is beyond me. and the chain music store all you see is aisle after aisle of bull**** and you have to get through all the little 50 cent and eminem wanna-bes milling around to find they dont even have a placecard for the band your looking for!!! its refreshing to know that you can always go to the web and find it and sometimes they throw in a gem like the cassette cd, that even if my record store was cool would not even have!!!! thank god i was not born here or i may never have heard of daniel!!! by the speaking of cool record stores check this one out www.vinaledge.com its where i came across daniels music and he himself shops there its a great store and they always promote dan and have a kind word about him. well this wasnt a quick note after all now was it?!?!? rolleyes
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