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General Discussion => Fan Forums => Topic started by: Mindwalk on November 08, 2003, 02:13:47 PM



Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Mindwalk on November 08, 2003, 02:13:47 PM
:?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:  :?:
Ray, I´ m curious......what your question is about?


Title: ...lest ye be judged?
Post by: Henry Long on November 08, 2003, 03:05:22 PM
"...and if a man seeketh to belittle or taketh poopie
on another of far superior talents and grace, yay, I say unto ye,
that man shall be laughed at and ignored, foolish though he be."


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Stallion on November 08, 2003, 03:21:53 PM
I'm confused. :?


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Mindwalk on November 08, 2003, 09:39:03 PM
Great one Henry !!! I second that!!!

I don´t know why "Rayjected" is so jealous.......


Title: amen to henry long, etc.
Post by: ray pickens on November 08, 2003, 10:00:37 PM
:evil:
amen to henry long.
to the administrator (daniel's brother, i presume):
my question is quite timely and i am indeed quite curious as to what daniel's own convictions and beliefs are relating to gays and lesbians.  i know that daniel has been subjected his whole life to the teachings of the church of christ, and yet i suspect, he being an artist and free spirit, that he might be a little more open minded on the subject than your run of the mill church of christ member.  i am curious to see if my intuition is correct on this matter.
i do not know why you think that i am jealous of daniel.  my post contained not the slightest hint of such.  and why do you call me "rayjected"?  i have not been rejected any more than your average guy, and have actually had quite a string of successes, not least of all having written, produced, and sung on countless television commercials and written songs and underscoring for several national television shows.  I have even had a few songs recorded by some relatively known acts, namely Queen Ida and Patrick Juvet.  And I currently have a full-time job which utilizes my not inconsiderable skills at the piano, as well as arranging and vocal coaching.  believe me, i am not jealous of daniel, much as that may please you to think so.  i am merely plainly honest in whatever i write, and i can plainly state that i do not envy daniel's rather severe mental condition, and thank my lucky starts that i am sane enough to hold a full-time job.  what exactly should i be envious of?  if daniel had written and recorded smash hits maybe i'd be a tad envious, but i'm not aware that he has done such.  if i'm wrong, and he has written and recorded smash hit records, let me know, and i promise to be a little envious then.
cheers,
ray


Title: two other artists who've recorded my songs
Post by: ray pickens on November 08, 2003, 10:47:22 PM
:evil:
i forgot to mention two other famous artists who've recorded my stuff:  michael bolton and valerie simpson (of ashford and simpson).
ray


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Disfranchise on November 09, 2003, 05:55:21 AM
A reply to Ray Pickens on the matter of smash hits.

To succeed in doing a smash hit you need to be at the right time and right place as everybody knows and you also have to have a good recording of the song so it can be played on the radio without "disturbing" the avarage listener.
I admit, the songs Daniel's written in the past ten years or so is not that amazing, most of them is actually bad (even though some really stand out). Most, and I mean those who really love Daniel's work, loves the songs and recordings made in the 80's. If those songs would have been the work of, let's say Bob Dylan, they would defenetly have been SMASH HITS.

The thing is here, the most obvious reason why Daniel's music isn't too well known is because of his singing and playing which is not "perfect" so to speak. I'm not saying Dylan's got a great voice but Daniel has got that highpitch voice that makes people think "false singing" and doesn't listen to the song itself but the crummy recording and the childish voice.
Those who listen trough all that can see that his music is as good as most Beatles songs and poignant stories with amazing angles to it.

There are so many who make a living being a musician but there are very few that are good at what they do, just like any other job.
Sure, you make a living out of you music, so what? That not the point!
That's not what it's all about!

So what is it Ray that you've got against Daniel anyway?
/Disfranchise


Title: i have nothing against daniel at all
Post by: ray pickens on November 09, 2003, 07:26:28 AM
:evil:
i have nothing against daniel at all, and i don't know why you ask this question.  i was simply trying to find out what daniel thought about an important social issue and his attendant religious beliefs on such.  i'm just curious.  i was raised in the same kind of church daniel was raised in, and i escaped the narrow thinking which is part of that type of church, and i am hopeful that daniel escaped this kind of thinking as well.  i always liked daniel very much when i knew him, and i haven't seen him for a long time.  i would like to see him again in the future, but going to texas does not exactly appeal to me.  maybe he'll do a gig in rochester sometime.
as far as having hits is concerned, it seems to me that whenever someone doesn't have them, they always have some kind of excuse, but i've always believed that if you write hit songs, big name artists will want to record them, since everyone would benefit.  when i wrote jingles, they either sold or they didn't sell, they either stayed on the air for a long time and made me money or they didn't.  i could find a thousand reasons why such and such a jingle stayed on the air for three years while another one didn't make it past the demo stage, but the bottom line was that some made it and some didn't.  luckily, many of mine made it.  and, by the way, i am most definitely very good at what i do, or i wouldn't be in such high demand as a pianist and arranger in a town that hosts the eastman school of music.


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Mindwalk on November 09, 2003, 08:44:06 AM
Okay Ray, Sorry to be so rude.......It was something i presumed.

First of all, I´m not Daniel´s brother, I´m just a fan helping to run this forum.

I really didnt know about your succesful career...I´m happy for you... :wink:   I typed "ray pickens" on google and couldn´t find relevant info...that´s why i came to that wrong conclusion....once again, i apologize.

 :!: Not all artists are looking for "mainstream" success, and smash hits...

I really think that somehow, for us fans, it´s good that Daniel never wrote a "Smash Hit"....it gives him the freedom he needs to write his own kind of music....I don´t think he would like to write songs under pressure, etc.
Maybe it would have "smashed" his inspiration.

I´m just curious to know why you used a "very mad" emoticon on your first post. It made me think you were angry, or so........were you?Why?


Title: thank you
Post by: ray pickens on November 09, 2003, 10:14:43 AM
:evil:
thanks.  apology accepted.
i use the "evil" emoticon because it looks like the devil, who is a far more interesting character in genesis, and in milton's "paradise lost", than god.  you know, i have those issues about my church of christ upbringing.....  i just wonder if daniel has issues about it too.  i don't think there really is a devil or satan (though anything's possible) just as i don't think there really is some god named jehovah or yaweh or zeus or wotan (though anything's possible).  i hope that explains my (rather subconscious) use of the "evil" emoticon.  plus, i think it looks cool.


Title: Songs of Innocence and Experience
Post by: Henry Long on November 09, 2003, 11:36:44 AM
Not to harp on this for too long, but hey, we’re all here at rejectedunknown for one reason. A man’s work has touched us all deeply, even profoundly.

As for the idea of hits or even success, I have found, through many years of exploring my own creative endeavors, that there is a huge difference between entertainment (commercial jingles? Jeez...) and Art. Art takes the chances. Art survives. Art is the only thing that can connect people from all over the world without irony, without overt packaging, without a hit.

Another big fan of Mr. John Milton was William Blake (1757-1827). Never left London. Spent all his life writing songs and engraving his complex personal mythologies. Less than 30 copies of his illuminated “greatest hits” (“The Marriage of Heaven and Hell” and “The Visions”) were printed in his lifetime! He was considered a loony tune by his contemporaries and during most of the following century. But he directly influenced almost single-handedly English Romanticism and the Symbolist painters of a few decades later, to name only a few.
 
In fact, the argument could be made that without William Blake, and therefor the English Romantic movement in poetry and literature and painting, there would have been no Beatles. Very Romantic heroes, those guys.

As I mentioned in my little statement on the rejectedunknown fan list page, Daniel Johnston truly is a living William Blake. I say that with complete sincerity and honesty.

In my attempt to live an authenticated life, and create authentic works of poetry and art of my own calling, no living musician has pointed that direction out more clearly to me than Daniel Johnston.

To quote Stan Lee, the Paul McCartney to Jack Kirby’s Lennon, “Nuff said!”


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2003, 11:48:12 AM
Yeah Ray, I'm sorry too. I seemed like you held something against Daniel but now we all know that that's not the case.
On the subjects of hits (again...)
If it's like you say that great songs become hits, why does it happen so often that old songs which got very little attention when it was released, become hits later on when the timing is right and there's a demand for such songs.
I believe that the hit-phenomenon has very little to do with the song itself.
If you'd pick out any avarage band out there and promote it like hell it would surley sell, of that I am certain because it has been done on several occasions.
And there is other ways to make hits. Take for example all artists that does covers like Steps, A1 and A*Teens. What they are selling in those cases are something else than music; an image, and it really works!

/Disfranchise


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Disfranchise on November 09, 2003, 12:37:54 PM
I'm a pain in the ass just going on and on about this, I know... :oops:
But I thought I'd add that Daniel, unlike you Ray, have some well-known fans, so to speak. Here's some:

David Bowie
Beck
Kurt Cobain
Wilco
Pearl Jam
Jad Fair
Butthole Surfers

These are people who knows what they're doing!!
So there's obviously something that they get which most people don't.


Title: i have some well-known fans too
Post by: ray pickens on November 09, 2003, 10:14:54 PM
:evil:
to the ignorant person who said i had no well-known fans.  i do indeed have some well-known fans.
these people are very well-known in their respective fields:
David Burge, the legendary pianist, is a fan of mine.  He once wrote that "I could very well be one of the great American symphonists."
Mark Barkan, who wrote hits for Manfred Mann, Leslie Gore, and Rod Stewart is a fan of mine.  He once told me that I am the single greatest musical talent he has ever  encountered.  Charles Strouse, composer of "Annie" and "Bye Bye Birdie" is a fan of mine.  He was a great supporter of mine in my NYC years and was completely knocked out by my rock opera fragment "Anthem".  I even went on to be musical director for one of his shows.  I am currently working on a  show project with Mark Barkan, by the way.
just a note:  kurt cobain is no longer a fan of daniel's, unless he has risen from the dead.
another note:  i'm getting tired of defending myself from ignorant and baseless put-downs.  please get your facts straight before writing such things about me.  thank you.


Title: art
Post by: ray pickens on November 09, 2003, 10:30:48 PM
:evil:
to henry long:
art is in the eye of the beholder.
to everyone else who put me down:
way more people out there (especially if they were kids in the late 80's and into the '90's) know my jingles than know daniel's "art".  mr. potato head.  transformers.  cabbage patch kids.  my little pony.  the jem show.  i could go on and on...
what is art?  wagner?  schoenberg?  mickey mouse?  pickens?  johnston?  beatles?  debbie boone?  bach?
it depends on your point of view.
i couldn't care less about labels.  i care about results and making money from what i do.  if it's art, great.  if not, i couldn't care less.
hint:  if you want to hear some really great and profound modern music, listen to arvo part.  but this is only my opinion.


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Mindwalk on November 09, 2003, 10:53:50 PM
:evil:  :evil:  :evil:

Okay, let´s get straight to the point....and to the facts!

type "Daniel Johnston" on google......count the results.... 8)
Type "Ray Prickens"...ooooops....."Ray Pickens" on google....can you see anything???  :shock:

Ray, can you give us your official website, or your fan forums URL, so we can go there bother your fans :P  :P  :P

If you´re so famous and so busy, why did you insist on wasting your valuable and precious time with us? Go write another "Smash" Jingle......or soundtracks for  "blockbuster" movies.......


Talking ´bout movies....is there any documentary movie about your career? I would like to watch it...so i can learn more about you.....
There are 2 movies about daniel being produced....

Is there any university including your work on their programs?
University of Texas includes Daniel´s art work on their Art School ...
Daniel has performed live at important festivals, in USA, Japan, Europe...
Also He has Succesful art exhibitions abroad.

We´re interested on TRUE art here....not jingles, muzak, or whatever...


Get a Life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  


Quoting Henry Long "NUFF SAID!"



PS: Micheal Bolton Sucks!


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Disfranchise on November 10, 2003, 09:02:59 AM
Ray Pickens, you are by far the most self-righteous person I've ever encountered. Yes, it's good to be proud over the things you've accomplished but can't you see what you're doing here???

...and YES I know Cobain's dead, I'm not stupid, stop patronising.

More fans:
Sonic Youth
Matt Groening (the creator of simpsons who once was quoted saying D.J was his favourite artist)
Yo La Tengo
Sparklehorse
Dead Milkmen
Well, I can go on and on as you may see...

And Daniel has performed at wellknown festival such as the Roskilde festival and Boa Boa.

Remember van Gogh??? Didn't sell a painting til' after he was dead.

"Over the past twenty years, Johnston has finally received his due, hailed by critics and fans".


Title: i'm through
Post by: ray pickens on November 10, 2003, 12:27:07 PM
:evil:
ok.  i'm outta here.  should have never opened this can of worms.  i don't have to justify myself here.  everything i said about myself is true, like it or not, on the web or not.  the jingles i wrote were buyouts written under a pseudonymn (peter storm) for hire in a jingle house (i made the major load of my money on the SAG contracts/royalties, that is, singing, and seesion fees and musician's/producer's royalties.  creative fees were ok, but the money's in the singing), so you won't find peter storm either, since he doesn't exist anymore as my pseudonym (there's no web site for the "fans" of my jingles, nor do i ever want or want anyone else to create one  that's old news, and i couldn't care less about it anymore; but ask anyone who grew up in the late 80's and 90's if they know my jingles, and if they watched tv, they'll know my stuff.  'nuff said. that part of my life and career is way behind me, and i'm in another phase now.  self-righteous or not.  i'm tired of the abuse i receive here.  i wanted to know daniel's opinion on the scripture i quoted, that's all.  as for the rest of you and your defensive insults:  bite me.  i don't have time for the puny number of "fans" who post here (and the puny number who have visited the site).  go on with your little club.  this is not a club i wish to join after all.  so all 5 of you who come here can go on posting infrequently as usual.  no more need to post on my account.  as for daniel, i will always like him and have fond memories of being with him.  as for his brother, well, no comment.  as for daniel's parents, they are the sweetest, nicest people you could ever know, and i wish them all the best.  i wish daniel all the best and continued success, and the more the better.  alot of heavy hitters sure like him, and they can't all be wrong.  good luck, daniel.
ray


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Stallion on November 10, 2003, 01:25:56 PM
I don't understand...you said you've been with Daniel, which I'm thinking means you've met him and have talked to him.  So my question is why do you need this forum to answer your ques about his religious views?  Can't you just ask him yourself?

By the way I believe this forum is set up for fans to talk about Daniel's music and art.  IMO this isn't the place to talk about what Dan thinks about homosexuals.


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Henry Long on November 10, 2003, 05:28:22 PM
Whew!
Too much coffee maybe?


Title: Is Ray Pickens gay?
Post by: Guest on November 10, 2003, 08:56:02 PM
So what is the deal here?   Is Ray Pickens gay or something.  

It's definitely not that Daniel is gay.  Maybe he made a pass at Daniel or something and got rejected.


Title: Re: i'm through
Post by: allsop on November 11, 2003, 02:57:01 AM
Quote from: ray pickens
(there's no web site for the "fans" of my jingles, nor do i ever want or want anyone else to create one  that's old news, and i couldn't care less about it anymore)

For having said that, you seem very adamant, ray, about telling us how popular/successful/big/good you are (or however you want to say it).  That in fact seems to be more than 80% of all you talk about.  More than two of your posts were simply/completely you saying how great you are and why you're better than Daniel.

As for your comment about our (the fans) "defensive ignorant insults"... you then immediately went into your own "defensive (ignorant) insults".  :idea:

Quote from: ray pickens
another note: i'm getting tired of defending myself from ignorant and baseless put-downs. please get your facts straight before writing such things about me. thank you.

ditto


Title: my last post was removed
Post by: ray pickens on November 11, 2003, 02:31:41 PM
Ray's previous post was removed as containing personal attacks using personal names.   Guideines for such removal are posted under "Announcements"

:evil:
my last post was removed.  that says it all.  i never said i was better than daniel, nor do i think i am.  end of discussion.  pretty low trick to remove a post with no objectionable content in it.  i smell a brother at work here....was my last post too pointed and too nice?  i said all kinds of laudatory things about daniel, and even criticized my own writing.  wow.  the only person i criticized was daniel's brother for ramming church stuff down my throat.  talk about manipulating the story people are getting on here.  if it weren't for me posting here and getting attacked, there wouldn't be very much posting going on here.  why the need to attack me, and force me to defend myself?  just stop, please.  i don't want to talk about myself, i want to know daniel's opinion of the scripture in question.  thank you.
ray

[MODERATOR: Ray himself has explained what happened here.   "Nothing objectionable" appears to be a personal message to Daniel's brother about some private issue between the two of them!   Such content belongs in 'private messages', Ray.  Having said that, we fully understand you won't 'understand', but hey!  We keep trying, don't we?]


Title: Re: two other artists who've recorded my songs
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2003, 03:12:25 PM
Quote from: ray pickens
:evil:
i forgot to mention two other famous artists who've recorded my stuff:  michael bolton and valerie simpson (of ashford and simpson).
ray


This made me piss myself laughing.

ftp://billhicks.kicks-ass.net/bill/I'm%20Sorry,%20Folks/11%20-%20You're%20Proving%20My%20Point.mp3

^ My sentiments exactly ^


Title: Ray's motives are good!
Post by: Anonymous on November 11, 2003, 06:25:48 PM
That's it.  Raymond is introducing controversy to HELP the message board!   I love it.


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Mindwalk on November 11, 2003, 07:42:53 PM
Thanks Ray! :D

(http://www.hihowareyou.com/messageboard/images/flames/mrsockpuppet.jpg)


Title: Re: my last post was removed
Post by: allsop on November 11, 2003, 10:20:08 PM
If any post were removed it couldn't be for "no good reason"... you must hate his brother or something... cause he has convictions just as you have convictions?  I thought being a "free spirit" was all about accepting all the different convictions?  You said it yourself, "though anything's possible"... leaving room for anything/anyone.  Would it matter if Daniel is one way or another on some certain issue?  So you want to know if he's a "free spirit" and accepts everything, or if he was "forced" to believe something else?  If he believes something else does that mean he's forced?

Nobody's "forcing" you to defend yourself... and why is it you can defend yourself but anyone else defending theirself is just "abuse" or "defensive insults"?

best wishes  :D


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Disfranchise on November 12, 2003, 09:17:06 AM
I couldn't agree more AllSop.
And yes it's true that Ray has all got us writing more and that's because we all think Ray's been wrong on many subjects and we feel the need to explain. Ofcourse everyone can't get it (not saying Ray doesn't, but so it seems) but those who do get it really really loves what Daniel does.


Title: Posted by Ray under this name" (moderator)
Post by: Disenfranchise on November 14, 2003, 08:06:14 PM
And God Said:
Let There Be Dick.
And There Was Dick.
And He Said That It Was Good.
It Was Mmm Mmm Good.
:lol:

[MODERATOR: this message was posted by Ray]


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Mindwalk on November 14, 2003, 08:14:33 PM
Just to make clear.

"Disenfranchise", author of last post, is Ray, trying to "undercover"......

Shall i use the SockPuppet image again????


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: the PRICK on November 14, 2003, 08:19:50 PM
Great, it´s so fun to KICK against the PRICKENS...
specially as a fake Guest user!!!!!! :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:


Title: Posted by Ray under this name" (moderator)
Post by: Neitzsche on November 14, 2003, 08:27:15 PM
Posted by Ray under this name" (moderator)


[extensive and multiple posts with nothing but large cut-and-past quotes from Neitzsche's "The Antichrist" have been deleted for the following reasons:

"off-topic"  
"devoice of individual comment"
"abuse of post size and volume"
"promoting bigotry and hatred"

For future reference, users may want to provide URLs to any such extensive content rather cut-and-paste in 15 posts!! This allows members to decide if they want to read material

Any similar postings of "Knights of the Klu Klux Klan" or "Mein Camp" will be treated as hate-motivateed and removed.  You have been warned!  (As if it was necessary - but it was to this guy!!)

Anyone interested in the removed content of these messsages is welcome to buy the book!

Guidelines defining abuse of post priviledges is posted under "Announcments"]


Title: The Antichrist
Post by: Neitzsche on November 14, 2003, 08:32:58 PM
Posted by Ray under this name" (moderator)



[extensive and multiple posts with nothing but large cut-and-past quotes from Neitzsche's "The Antichrist" have been deleted for the following reasons:

"off-topic"  
"devoice of individual comment"
"abuse of post size and volume"
"promoting bigotry and hatred"

Guidelines defining abuse of post priviledges is posted under "Announcments"]


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: ;) on November 14, 2003, 08:37:31 PM
Ray,

Why are you so mad? Why do hate Catholicism and the church?

Did the local priest tried to abuse you when you were a kid?
You should try to investigate, because maybe your mind has deleted it, so you could live on.......

Or did your parents forced you to go to church every sunday? You should then be mad at your parents, not at the church......

You need medical help....


Title: The Antichrist
Post by: Neitzsche on November 14, 2003, 08:38:16 PM
Posted by Ray under this name" (moderator)


[extensive and multiple posts with nothing but large cut-and-past quotes from Neitzsche's "The Antichrist" have been deleted for the following reasons:

"off-topic"  
"devoice of individual comment"
"abuse of post size and volume"
"promoting bigotry and hatred"

Guidelines defining abuse of post priviledges is posted under "Announcments"]


Title: The Anti-Christ
Post by: Neitzsche on November 14, 2003, 09:08:04 PM
Posted by Ray under this name" (moderator)


[extensive and multiple posts with nothing but large cut-and-past quotes from Neitzsche's "The Antichrist" have been deleted for the following reasons:

"off-topic"  
"devoice of individual comment"
"abuse of post size and volume"
"promoting bigotry and hatred"

Guidelines defining abuse of post priviledges is posted under "Announcments"]


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Mindwalk on November 14, 2003, 10:17:24 PM
(http://hihowareyou.com/messageboard/images/flames/gramma.jpg)


Title: ENVY OF THE CREATOR and EVERYTHING CREATIVE
Post by: And let there be.... on November 15, 2003, 02:07:56 AM
Is it the fate of those who lack the spirit of their creator to be devoid of any real creativity?

Everything that comes out is only parroting what they perceive to be profound from others.  Nothing original.

They are doomed forever to only imitate.  

.. or in this case ... to cut and paste ...


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Stallion on November 15, 2003, 08:11:44 AM
OMG plz admin kick this guy and ban plz.  He has nothing to say about Dan...he just spouts his religious retric(sp).


Title: what does daniel think about leviticus 20?
Post by: Philip Johnston on November 16, 2003, 12:18:08 AM
Just So You Know
(http://www.hihowareyou.com/messageboard/yipshare/pictures/retarded.jpg)